Pilot asked, what is truth?

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Permalink Reply by Liz Cosline on August 19, 2009 at 1:31am

I don't know if you want someone to reply but it made me think as I read what you wrote. All my life there were times I wondered would God reject people that did not believe in Jesus. The chosen people, the Jews, believe he was a preacher, a man. I have wondered if this means they are never going to heaven. That's hard for me to swallow.

After my NDE I often think about the words that would come from God in different situations. To me God would say things like Jesus taught many things that are meant to go into hearts for the heart is what I (God) look at. Jesus spoke of love for all, and being kind. Jesus talked about helping each other, feeding each other, caring for each other. And he talked about putting God first in our lives. And a thousand other lessons. To discuss this would take volumes to get through but just wanted to mention that I just see love.

Knowing that God is all about unconditional love He brought us a teacher. A teacher like no other. But as we get tested He looks at how much is in the heart. Do we lie, or cheat, or walk past someone in need? Do we yell, or hit, or kill? Do we take care of each other, or help each other, or say kind words?

If we all were graded we would never reach 100% on the test. But God knows that. I believe He looks at how much is taken into the heart, how much do we live the lessons as best as possible, and how much do we keep trying. But it is something only He will know. I can't believe that if a person struggled with believing in Jesus but lived life in a loving and caring way for this world and the people in it, striving to do good and many of the other lessons Jesus taught that God would turn away. I can't see how unconditional love could ever turn away.

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Permalink Reply by rudenski rudenski on August 19, 2009 at 7:47am

From my NDE perspective, I was amazed at what made it through to the light... There were souls from every walk... it was not a belief or faith that got them(all of them) into the light... but rather just the light... in them... What was unloving or unkind in those who die- all... as in "every knee" was cast as far as the East is from the West and remembered no more."

If there is darkness in anything... plant or animal(even the human kind), with physical death, the light did not allow that darkness to enter in... through the gates of heaven... Darkness in anything does not make it to the light... It would be like darkness having a chance to exist in a small room with a 10,000 watt light bulb. Where can it hide other than returning back to the same place it came from(The Fall).

If followers of Jesus add more light to their lives... through their earnestly giving the sinner's prayer... then that extra light will see heaven. If just the sinner's prayer is all that a sinner does that glorifies the light then that little part of their life makes it to the light as a gift(pearl) to give to the light for that sinner's soul. If a Jew has any love in him whatsoever... and Atheist... a Muslim... or even a devil worshiper like most religious people(Remember who Jesus told them their father was)... then any light from anyone or anything.. that is love will never die... The light's children are light... And the "Father of Lights" will never abandon his/her children...

Jesus came to save the children of a devil... by showing them an example of how to treat one another... by loving one another... Jesus' walk is the walk of treating one another the way we ideally would want to be treated... to love neighbors(that is not just our next door neighbors) but rather... our neighbors that do not look like us... or speak our language... or go worship the way that we do... to turn the other cheek... to love...

The "Good Samaritan" (A Non Jew- Non- Christian) is a good example of what is "saved." The loving actions of the heathen Samaritan will make it into heaven/// even though he never confessed a love for Jesus and never even knew there was a man who died on a tree... He may even have rejected the sinner's prayer/// but Jesus...died for the Samaritan's love... That Samaritan's other actions... not mentioned in the parable... that were not loving... go to the same pit that a Christian or Jew's unlight sins go... they are cast off on the way to the light/// If, given the fantastic example of Jesus, Christians start being good Samaritans then they will get more of their lives into the light than those who just follow after their lusts... Nothing unlight(death) from anyone or anything will ever see light... The light can not even look on it.

As soon as the first rebellious dark thought came from the God of this world was ever thought...it removed that dimension of God from the source of the light//// but Jesus(and he has many other names) is the Good Sheppard... whose sacrifice will retrieve from every dimension... every drop of love... from all that have any in them... and even from things that have no soul at all... if they simulate love...

Know that words can not adequately describe the light... but this I know... The light does not throw away light... light returns to light... It is not an all of us or nothing deal... If you have only act of love in a lifetime of unlove then that one act of love will stand as a testament of the love in you beyond time to timelessness... Christians have a better shot than most for getting more of their lives into the light...but I am partial to what Ghandi said; I like your Christ but I don't like your Christians., because they do not do the the things your Christ does. No withstanding... that is an unfair judgment... as even the most scurrilous Christian may have some meekness, some gentleness, some loving kindness that will see the light... and that goes for Muslims, Jew, Hindu too... or even worshipers of a devil... All light returns to light... thank you Jesus....or by any other name.. God who is love...

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Permalink Reply by Chaplain Dell on August 19, 2009 at 10:25am

Dear Liz and Rudenski,

Thank you for your different insights of who may enter into the light, and what happens to darkness...
I will have to pray about what I have read, so that the Holy Spirit may reveal the truth in it to me.
It is interesting to me also as I think of myself as a child in Episcopal Sunday school...
As I watched an old 1950's Cartoon about believing "on" the Lord Jesus Christ in personally know God, my young heart jumped for joy watching this teaching. It was the first time I had ever heard the Gospel; and from a Cartoon of all places!

Than the Priest quickly turned off the projector, and said this statement was untrue!!!!
And that we could not know God personally through the person of Jesus Christ, my heart sank (crashed) in what he had just uprooted within me! He said only that we could imitate Christ's example to us.
This is the most pointed example that I can give of a believer and a non-believer in Christ, it certainly is a matter of the heart, love and light in us... But to say that no power exists personally in coming to God through Christ truly is heresy and in my opinion the man despite his seminary education, was not called to be a minister of Christ!

Rudenski has given me his personal insights about this matter, in a theological way I have never heard before.
Perhaps this is the type of Priest the Episcopal minister should have been, in my Sunday school class?
One thing I do know is that by having a personal relationship with God via Jesus Christ; a whole new spiritual dimension was opened up to me in my life (starting with what I witnessed while in "street ministry")...
Interestingly enough, the main line churches often rejected my experiences, as they were not apart of their doctrines, (although Biblical , and real)...
I like real, and not just doctrines, as I have become a "Spiritual man" over time and experience. I have fault with demons and achieved victory in Christ, had a miraculous healing, and experienced things other church people have only read about...
Why because my Seminary was the street and the Bible, with a well educated Pastor who took the word of God literally; and walked accordingly. Denominational "clubs" did not like the way he would not conform with all their teachings - the man was a maverick for Christ, and God used him to teach me.

God called me in a “Technicolor” vision one evening as a Pastor; it was 1999 a year after my marriage to the women I led to Christ! The next morning the Lord used a Truth for Life broadcast that directly explained my vision to me! I saw the shadowy presents next to me that day of who I believe was our Lord. Than again on my NDE, and just recently when submitting my Priesthood application to the Church of England.

During the time of dating my wife I had to learn and walk on my own the year before (in hearing God speak to my heart) as the "Church rules" would not apply to dating a "non-believer" who God had led me to (long story)...

Any way I experienced visions of the "sword"; word of God put into my heart, my wife two months later was saved and saw me in a Clergy collar; and all the visions started to come together and make more and more sense.
The Church rejected my testimonies and me, even though I later would complete and surpass all their leadership training; but because I had not their formal college degrees I was not allowed to pursue “Pastoral status” with them.

If what has been written here is true, than I must apologize for being so “hard core” in behalf of Christ! Perhaps the bride of Christ is just a closer position to God than some others would be in their relationship to Him? This is just speculation on my part, but I am ever seeking His greater truth in my heart.

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and experiences with me; it really is a good fellowship here. In closing, I would like to add that a secular NDE web site once removed me for even mentioning the name of Christ!
“Dr. J. Long’s site” (member # 777) and I had even written to the Priest associated with the site… Not very much a “big tent” mentality to me, all I did was send a private message to a member explaining how Christ was often referred to as the second Adam, in response to her Spirit Soul and Semantics’ post; in attempting to explain the difference.

May the Lord bless and keep you,
CH Roland Dell

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Permalink Reply by NDE-Space on August 19, 2009 at 12:52pm

The greatest Biblical support for the near-death experience comes from all the New Testament verses concerning love. Like the teachings of Jesus, NDEs reveal the critical importance of love in all facets of life and death. Many NDEs complement Jesus' teachings of unconditional love and forgiveness. In fact, research shows that an experience of God's unconditional love is the aspect most felt by experiencers. Love is also one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit; and God is love. Because Jesus taught that bad trees do not produce good fruit, it can be safely assumed that the love found in NDEs is good fruit and that NDEs themselves are a good tree. It is by their fruits that we will know a bad tree from a good tree.
You say in a post in you site that you hope I would not be angry with you.
Why would you think I'll be angry with you my brother?
You know where I stand.
Thank the Lord that not one of us will get to Heaven because of how good we are! I know that I wouldn't make it if that were the case. No one would. One little sin—either by thought, word, or action—would be more than enough to make every person unworthy of being in the holy presence of God.

How special it is that God does know us—right down to our private thoughts—and still loves us. In fact, He loves us so much that He sent His one and only Son to die in payment for our sins because He knew that we couldn't do it on our own. "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (ROM. 6:23).
With that said I want you to understand that this site is not a religious site.
You know I'm a member of some religious sites and I try to tell my story and all I get is bad feedback.
What do you see when you go to a site like LIBAW? Arguments! Hate and so on. They all try to prove to be better than you and that's sad. Where's the love! Most don't know what God's love realy is.

The following are those verses supporting the unconditional love of God and how this love is the way to heaven.

On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "What must I do to inherit eternal life?"


"What is written in the law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

He answered: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and, love your neighbor as yourself."


"You have answered correctly," Jesus replied, "Do this and you will live." (Luke 10:25-28)


In terms of logic, this verse states:
Loving others and God IS THE WAY TO eternal life

In this passage of scripture, Jesus affirms that love for God and others is the way to eternal life (i.e., no more dying). This corresponds with what people having NDEs say about God as pure unconditional love. This unconditional love is the source we can draw from to love our neighbor unconditionally just as Jesus taught and practiced.

Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. (1 John 4:7)
Loving others IS EQUAL TO knowing God

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. (1 John 4:16)
Loving others IS EQUAL TO God is within you

Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. (1 John 4:8)

Not loving others IS EQUAL TO not knowing God
God is love IS EQUAL TO Love is God

For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. (1 John 4:20)

Not loving others IS EQUAL TO not loving God

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. (1 John 3:14)

Loving others IS EQUAL TO having eternal life

God is love. (1 John 4:8)
Love keeps no record of wrongs. (1 Cor. 13:5)
God keeps no record of wrongs

God keeps no record of wrongs because God is unconditional love. These Bible verses refutes the misconception that God is full of wrath. It refutes the misconception that Jesus will cast people headlong into the fire of hell merely because they never had the opportunity to pledge allegiance to Jesus.

God is love. (1 John 4:8)

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. (1 Cor. 13:4-8)


God is patient, kind, doesn't envy, does not boast, is not proud, is not rude, is not self-seeking, not easily angered, keeps no record of wrongs, does not delight in evil, rejoices with the truth, always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres, and never fails.


Contrary to what many fundamentalists believe, to say that "God is love" is not the same as saying that "God loves." "God loves" is how most fundamentalists interpret the phrase "God is love" because they reject the logical implications of what the phrase "God is love" means. It means that love is God. This is merely a matter of basic algebra. If "God" equals "love," then "love" equals "God."

Fundamentalists claim that the phrase "God is love" is merely a statement of what God does: love. But basic English grammar shows that the phrase "God is love" is not the same as saying "God loves." The reason it is not the same is because the word "love" in that verse is a noun and not a verb or adjective. The phrase "God loves" is a reference to God and the verb "loves" - not "loves" as a noun. The phrase "God is love" is a reference to two nouns: "God" and "love". For example, another phrase that would be equal to the phrase "God is love" would be "God is the Spirit of love." Also, this logically and grammatically means that "the Spirit of love is God." This is not the same as saying "God loves" - although it is true that God loves. This Bible verse is very specific and is supported up by all the Bible verses previously shown here. God is love. Therefore, love is God. It must also be noted that the "love" referred to in these verses is not a reference to just any kind of love. The kind of love associated with the phrase "God is love" is not the same as saying, "My love for my dog is great" or "I love green beans." The kind of love associated with God is translated in Greek as "agape" which means "divine love." This is not ordinary love.

Other verses that are logically similar to the two phrases "God is love" and "love is God" are the following:

God is light. (1 John 1:5)
God IS EQUAL TO light
Light IS EQUAL TO God

Of course, the "light" does not refer to "sunlight" or "lightbulb light". Biblical "light" associated with God is a reference to the divine "light" of unlimited knowledge and understanding. The phrase "God is light" means just what it says: "God" is "light" - not "God" gives "light." It also means that "light" is "God" because they are one and the same.

He is the true God and eternal life. (1 John 5:20)
God IS EQUAL TO life
Life IS EQUAL TO God

When equating "God" with "life", the Bible is not referring to ordinary life. It means eternal life. It is the same as saying "life is God" because "God" and "life" itself is one and the same.

The following Bible verses show how "love" is superior to anything else because love is God.

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. (1 Cor. 13:13)


If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. (1 Cor. 13:2)


If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing. (1 Cor. 13:3)


If I speak in the tongues of humans and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor. 13:1)
Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. (1 Peter 4:8)

Logically, because (1) love covers over a multitude of sins and (2) God is love, this means that God covers over a multitude of sins because God is love.

Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. (Rom. 13:10)
This verse can be interpreted to mean that the law of God is love.

The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. (Gal. 5:6)
Faith and good works of love are all that counts.

He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. (Col. 1:17)
God holds everything together - the power of the atom! And because God is love it can also be said that love holds the universe together.

By this [love] all humans will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another. (John 13:35)

Loving others IS EQUAL TO being a disciple of Jesus.

And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. (2 John 1:6)

Loving others IS EQUAL TO obeying Jesus

In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. (James 2:17)

Having real faith IS EQUAL TO doing good works.

This verse reveals that faith alone - apart from doing good works - is worthless and does not get anyone to heaven. This salvation by good works described by James is the true teachings of Jesus - not Paul's salvation by faith alone. It means that faith alone is does not get anyone to heaven.

We love because he first loved us. (1 John 4:19)

LIFE AFTER LIFE!
I believe you called to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ too. God blessed you.

Love!
Glauco
NDE-Space

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Permalink Reply by Chaplain Dell on August 24, 2009 at 9:47am

Quite a interesting response Bob,

I can see you also seek a greater truth; yes I have made some posts on Tentmaker.Com concerning specifically the theology you have mentioned. My post was called Eternal or Everlasting...
It is specifically taken from the ideas you have posted here.
In the first three centuries the early Christian Church struggled with the idea of hell (everlasting) after the judgement day. I merely put for the idea that an "Eternal Fire" did not necessarily mean forever, but rather it could be a purification process for an "era" ?

This writing is based on the idea that only God is Eternal (no beginning and no end) everything he has created has a point of creation, and if the soul lasts forever this does not make it eternal; but rather everlasting. In the 4th Century the less accurate language of Latin, was adopted by the Church instead of the more accurate Greek. So the possibility exists that "everlasting" hell fire, comes from a less accurate translation of the scriptures!

We as Christians are told we are baptized by water and fire as we live, could this not be the same type of fire used on the unsaved for an unspecified period of time after the judgement day?
I still am researching this possibility, and have run into allot of opposition (even from my own family) that the "established Church orthodoxy " might need to be examined again in this area...

People and establishments never react positively when one questions an accepted practice and; like I said I am still doing my own reading on the subject you mentioned.
I can also tell you that it was Jesus Christ who made the references to hell... This is why you will find little in the old testament about it, (other than a referral to shoal); so my question than becomes is hell (after the judgement) an everlasting fire or an eternal one!

And perhaps only the Bride of Christ is spared this final judgement ? Will God lose anything he created to punishment for ever and ever or rather is it simply a period of correction.
Of course I am assuming that hades and hell do exist because Jesus taught it did...

But for how long and to what extent is my question, and who's heart has rejected the Holy Spirit of God, and who's has not? This certainly is above my pay grade and I cannot be dogmatic about a theology that I feel I don't totally understand. I will not, and cannot disregard Christs teachings; but I can investigate the contexts and translational form it has been written.

Let me say in closing that I have been kicked off of Dr. Long's site (secular) for mentioning the name of Jesus Christ; and my mother a Bible instructor with a library of books became very upset with me when even mentioning the possibility that hell might not be forever. She dug out her texts books and started directly quoting the theological question I had just mentioned, as stemming from a pluralistic teaching.

Perhaps; yet I can only speak to people as a fallible human being, until my spirit reveals the bigger truth to my soul. As far as my calling for the work in spreading the Gospel; this will always be my primary goal and I will stand on it until the day that I die (again).

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Permalink Reply by Chaplain Dell on August 24, 2009 at 10:28am

Suggested web browsing:
Go to Bible Probe . com and read the accounts of people seeing hell (shoal) in their NDE's...
This is the only site I have seen that has these accounts!
The rest are more secular sites, and I have never seen a mention of hell in peoples NDE's?
Why, I suspect for political and religious reasons?
We must examine the bigger picture in attempting to understand truth.
Deliberate deception of Truth is the work of the Evil one, who I personally have met in battle... And he certainly does exist.
Even when I started into cardiac arrest again; the nurse told me- " Mr. Dell, the Enemy knows who you are, but this will not stop what God has planned for you"...

This was my private prayer about a week before my event, that the Enemy would know me like he knew only Christ, Paul and Silos in the early Church.

The rest of the Church was so ineffective in those days, the adversary didn't even bother with them!

Let me know what you think of the site...My friend Gerard is on this site also; mine is a Christian Soldiers Near Death Experience, my (photo attached) but:: please read the experiences of hell mentioned.

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